Heta Keskinarkaus

“not to be a critic but to be a participant” – Heta Keskinarkaus
Heta Keskinarkaus is a musician and actress and performer and artist and producer on the side who is based in Helsinki, Finland.
we spoke about:
  • identifying yourself as a professional artist
  • studying contemporary performance art at helsinki university
  • research
  • reality research centre
  • being a musician
  • being an actress
  • making your first album
  • touring Finland
  • negotiating with yourself about where to concentrate your time
  • things needing time
  • finding your medium
  • building your conversation community
  • feeling safe to be sincere
  • how to make music – bring a proposal then play around then have a conversation afterwards
  • writing lyrics with a dramaturg
  • meditation to be aware of your own thoughts and opinions
  • being scared of acting but also dreaming about it
  • west side story
  • showdance
  • european championship on cheerleading in moscow
  • practising intimacy and empathy
  • subjectivity
  • climate change
  • hyperobjects and agency
  • performance art philosophy
  • language dictating how to think
  • legibility vs nuance
“i think we’re sleeping, so i would love people to wake up a bit” – Heta Keskinarkaus
“the way i show my vulnerability and emotion encourages others to show their vulnerability and emotion” – Heta Keskinarkaus
“being on the stage, being still me and working with the rules of the practise” –  Heta Keskinarkaus
books mentioned:
other artists mentioned:

Ice Hole – Janne Saarakkala

This podcast is a chat with Janne Saarakkala, editor of the latest edition of Ice Hole live art journal.



Info from the website:

It tackles the rise of sex-positive culture in performance art, particularly participatory performances designed for sexual exploration and pleasure. Is it art, sexy art or just sex? And where’s the line between art, sex-positive activism and sex work?

Feature interviews of performance artist Julius Elo (FIN) and performance artist & sex worker Sadie Lune (DE/US). Also Slutartists (FIN), who caused a controversy in the 75th anniversary gala of the Degree Programme in Acting at the Theater Academy of the University of the Arts, are interviewed.

Videos by Pony Express (Ian Sinclair and Loren Kronemyer – AU), Alisa Javits (FIN), Sadie Lune, Pilvi Porkola (FIN), Nora Rinne (FIN) Aada Sigurlina (FIN) & Tomasz Szrama (FIN/PL). Texts by ICE HOLE editorial staff; Tuomas Laitinen (FIN), Louna-Tuuli Luukka (FIN), Nora Rinne & Janne Saarakkala.

Published by Reality Research Center.






Sophie Barendse

“Also the thing about me not dancing to music I think is that music is a huge part of my life so if the music I’m dancing to connects with me then it’s great but a lot of the time the music in classes I do or whatever doesn’t resonate so I sort of block it out”


Sophie Barendse is a dancer and makes dances.


we talk about:




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Jasmin Lee Sheppard

“You carry your emotions in your body… and dancers are some of the most generous artists I think that exist in what we are able to give and that should never be taken for granted.” – Jasmin Lee Sheppard


“It (the journey a dancer has to go on in a performance) can be cathartic but I don’t want it to be traumatic” – Jasmin Lee Sheppard


“How to make a political statement but not at the expense of the dancers wellbeing” – Jasmin Lee Sheppard


Jasmin Lee Sheppard is a dancer and choreographer.


We talk about her works and efforts as an independent artist, bringing alive important stories from the past that re-contextualise our current day. And being aware of those who have come before you. We also focus on building community, taking care when being a choreographer, the minority experience.







  • https://www.bangarra.com.au/about/person/jasmin-sheppard
  • http://www.danceaustralia.com.au/news/jasmin-sheppard
  • https://www.broadsheet.com.au/national/entertainment/article/creating-dance-science-and-secret-history
  • https://dancemagazine.com.au/tag/jasmin-sheppard/
  • https://www.form.org.au/does-anyone-really-call-themselves-a-choreographer-anymore/
  • https://www.sbs.com.au/topics/life/culture/article/2017/07/04/our-history-danced-our-way-bennelongs-story-told-bangarra
  • https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/2015/11/26/story-behind-ochres-dancer-feature
  • http://c-a-c.com.au/bangarra-dance-theatre-presents-macq/
  • https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/entertainment/sydney-confidential/dancer-jasmin-shepherd-in-step-with-her-role-in-bangarra-dance-theatres-production-of-patyegarang/news-story/c053442dad615c9a623479c881ac98a9

OK Radio (recast)

“the process of working is the process of unveiling something that is already there” Pavol Liska
Nature Theater of Oklahoma directors Kelly Copper and Pavol Liska talk to artists, curators and people around the world as well as making work, being revolutionary and following their desires to ride loud motorbikes through the streets of New York! Their podcast OK Radio (iTunes link) was part of the inspiration to begin Wombat Radio.
“all i know is what art had done to me” Pavol Liska
“you have to start with faith” – Pavol Liska
“it’s still a way to feel connected to people” Kelly Copper
we talk about:
  • what is what i’m doing, doing to me and to the world
  • self medication
  • success and struggle
  • finding joy vs enjoying the pain
  • community
  • not following in your own crisis
  • only worrying about doing the work well
  • the point of diminishing returns
“what does religion do? nothing!” like art – Pavol Liska
  • the power of exposure
“I grew up in communism and believed in one thing whole heartedly and then the revolution came and the next day i believed something else just as wholeheartedly” Pavol Liska
  • living in a relative state of mind
  • philosophy being in vogue
  • everyone having questions
  • living with absolute statements vs relative truths
“It’s hard to (use art to) provoke when they must put a warning outside the theatre about anything that might provoke you” – Kelly Copper
  • the artist feeling that they need to reassure the audience that they are on the side of the angels
  • artistic pornography
“trick the audience into coming there and then staying there” – Pavol Liska
  • pandering vs elitism
  • flirting with trouble
  • conduct
“I have got in trouble for things, that I did not believe was wrong” – Pavol Liska
  • invitation, provocation, and boundaries
  • having access to embody anyone, hitler or jesus. molesters or angels
  • giving up on absolutes
“I couldn’t call myself a good guy, I know myself too well” – Pavol Liska
  • never intending harm
“I hate that there are things (politically that) we can’t touch” – Kelly Copper
“I don’t know any other way to fix it than to keep making work” – Pavol Liska
“my role models, all got in trouble” – Pavol Liska
  • the world of performance
  • what makes up your language and vocabulary
  • legacy
“the art sometimes has to behave badly” – Kelly Copper
[theatre] “It’s a place for intuition and dreaming and a space for nightmares” –  Pavol Liska
  • expanding rules
  • in art you have to push yourself past discomfort around your ideas and rules
  • sushi vs schnitzel
“as soon as you push back against the radicals, you become the conservative?” Matt Cornell
  • moving to America after your formative years
“you don’t know and you can’t know and at some point you just have to take a risk… And work on that” – Pavol Liska
“the alien perspective on any kind of problem is always useful” – Pavol Liska
  • feeling outside of it all
  • responsibilities to the craft
  • separation state and church – separate art from politics
  • when philosophy was what a normal person did
“thinking about how thoughts are formed” – Pavol Liska
“perhaps the bravest thing to do is to change your mind” – Matt Cornell
  • understanding that there is more
  • hallucinatory drugs not equaling the force and lasting impact of a discovery when you are most sober
  • making yourself available
  • heritage, identity and legacy
  • shifting ambition
  • extending pleasure
  • the unanswered
  • quitting several times
  • ambition
  • falling in love as part of the process
  • having a shared dream
  • contracts vs agreement
  • divergent dreams
  • projects responding to a specific need
  • following your passion blindly
  • following impulses to expand
  • quitting when you exhaust the relationships
  • anti intellectualism, thought, nuance, ambiguity
  • doing something and then doing it better
  • getting motorcycles and riding off into the sunset
  • being a force for gentrification
  • when artistic community moves away from your city
  • new york life
  • the narrowing force of normality
“maybe it will turn into nothing but happiness” – Pavol Liska
“professional responsibility of curiosity” – Matt Cornell
  • the art of show: trickery, con, seduction
  • the audience has a choice
  • leaving or not leaving shows
“If you’ve never made a show then you have no idea” – Pavol Liska
film – Jiro dreams of sushi 🍣
film – gadar
project – the gif of dance
project – the blokes project
kate harman
tony morrison
james joyce
hifi store Lismore – the audio room

Eugene Choi – (episode 199)

“I don’t need to put it on my to-do list, I just do it” – Eugene Choi talking about dancing.


“I think my work is about intimacy and connection… but isn’t all work?.. good work at least?” – Eugene Choi


Eugene Choi is totally rad and compassionate and genius!

We sung michael jackson – heal the world and talked around:

  • being anemic and still being friendly
  • making  a plan
  • residencies
  • plaster slabs
  • art school
  • sydney festival
  • ambition
  • Scum Ballet at artspace
  • having a practise as an artist and having side gigs as a performer
  • underbelly arts festival with marcus whale
  • being an inert body vs becoming a performer

I call myself a sculpter even those most of my work is performative – Eugene Choi

  • family and making work about them
  • making work to avoid awkward conversations
  • being confused

“what means a lot to me is living as an asian in Australia” – Eugene Choi

  • language barriers
  • languages of intimacy
  • growing up in the north shore

I hate the cheese but i’m all cheese – Eugene Choi

  • the cost of the always working parent
  • internalised racism
  • being passionately melancholic

I’m not making work for them, I’m making work for me – Eugene Choi

  • doing a lot of things
  • effort and hope

Aren’t we all crazy? – Eugene Choi


  • thinking about love and making work
  • deadlines
  • controlling your work
  • juxtaposing your object with your body
  • video work
  • isolating oneself while working
  • feeling responsible for people
  • clichès
  • making autobiographical work
  • drinking lots of water

Ideally I just wanna be making work all the time – Eugene Choi


people mentioned:


Emma Fishwick 2018

Emma Fishwick makes dance, text and image. I find her incredibly inspiring and this discussion wanders through both our interests around considering culture, body, language, paradigm and more.


we talk around:

  • writing an exegesis
  • not dreaming
  • fringe ideas
  • getting better at thinking in words
  • interface
  • desires
  • scrutiny
  • going to a pistol range
  • the unknown
  • codification for the sake of legibility at the expense of nuance
  • thinking (or not) about the audience
  • when it’s not fun
  • landscapes
  • one day maybe being held in esteem
  • perspective


more info on emma’s work here:

  • https://www.performinglines.org.au/projects/yonder/
  • https://bundanon.com.au/residents/emma-fishwick/
  • https://www.instagram.com/ejessamine/
  • https://vimeo.com/user6271786
  • www.emmafishwick.com


past podcast here


people mentioned: